tv CNN Newsroom CNN October 12, 2012 9:00am-11:00am PDT
version, uninterrupted version of the great debate 2012. yes, it's the vice presidential debate, but 70 million people watched it four years ago. sarah palin. it was great. there were issues. you saw character. you saw issues, and you saw a real debate take place, and martha radditz, as my colleague soledad o'brien said, was masterful in how she moderated this thing. without further ado, have a look. >> good evening and welcome to the first and only vice presidential debate of 2012, sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. i'm mart raddatz of abc news and i am honored to moderate this debate between two men who have dedicated much of their lives to public service. tonight's debate is divided between domestic and foreign policy. i'm going to move back and forth between the issues.
that is what a vice president or president would have to do. we will have nine different segments. at the beginning of each segment, i will ask both candidates a question and they will each have two minutes to answer. then i will encourage a discussion between the candidates with followup questions. by coin toss, it's been determined that vice president biden will be first to answer the opening question. we have a wonderful audience here at center college tonight. you will no doubt hear their enthusiasm at the end of the debate. and right now, as we welcome vice president biden and congressman paul ryan. [ applause ] >> very nice to see you.
okay, you got your wave to the families in. good evening, gentlemen. it is an honor to be here with both of you. i would like to begin with libya. on a rather somber note, one month ago tonight, on the anniversary of 9/11, ambassador chris stevens and three other brave americans were killed in a terrorist attack in benghazi. the state department has made clear there were no protesters there. it was a preplanned assault by heavily armed men. wasn't this a massive intelligence failure, vice president biden? >> what it was is a tragedy, martha. i can make two commitments to you and all the american people tonight. one, we will find and bring to justice the men who did this. and secondly, we will get to the bottom of it and wherever the facts lead us, wherever they the american public, because o
whatever mistakes were made, will not be made again. when you're looking at a president, martha, it seems to me that you should take a look at his most important responsibility. that's caring for the national security of the country. the best way to do that is to take a look at how he's handled the issues. the president said he would end the war in iraq. governor romney said that was a mistake. we should have left 30,000 troops there. with regard to afghanistan, he said he will end the war in 2014. governor romney said we should not sell a date. number one. number two, with regard to 2014, he said it depends. when it came to osama bin laden, the president, the first day in office, i was sitting with him in the oval office. he called in the cia and signed an order saying my highest priority is to get bin laden. prior to the election, prior to him being sworn in, governor romney asked how he woul procd. he said i wouldn't move heaven anearth to get bin laden
he didn't understand it was more about taking a murderer off the battlefield, but restoring america's heart and letting terrorists around the world know if you do harm to america, we will track you to the gates of hell if need be. lastly, the president of the united states has led with a steady hand and clear vision. governor romney, the opposite. the last thing we need now is another war. >> congressman ryan? >> we mourn the loss of these four americans who were murdered. when you take a look at what's happened in the last few weeks, they sent the u.n. ambassador out to say that this was because of a protest and a youtube video. it took the president two weeks to acknowledge that this was a terrorist attack. he went to the u.n. and in his speech at the u.n. he said six times, he talked about the youtube video. look, if we're hit by terrorists, we're going to call it for what it is, a terrorist
attack. our ambassador in paris has a marine detachment guarding him. shouldn't we have a marine detachment guarding our ambassador in benghazi, a place we knew there was an al qaeda cell with arms? this is becoming more troubling by the day. they first blamed the youtube video. now they're frying to blame the romney-ryan ticket for make thing an issue. with respect to iraq, we had the same position before the withdrawal, which was we agreed with the obama administration. the vice president was put in charge of the negotiations by president obama and they failed to get the agreement. we don't have a status of forces agreement because they failed to get one. that's what we were talking about. when it comes to the veterans, we owe them a great debt of gratitude, including your some, bo. >> thank you. >> but we also want to make sure
we don't lose the things we fought so hard to get. and we agreed with the 2014 transition in afghanistan. but what we also want to do is make sure we're not projecting weakness abroad. this benghazi issue would be a tragedy in and of itself. but unfortunately, it's indicative of a broader problem, and that is what we're watching is the unraveling of the obama foreign policy, which is making things more chaotic and us let safe. >> i want to talk to you right in the middle of the crisis, governor romney, and you're talking about this again tonight, talked about the weakness, talked about apologies from the obama administration. was that appropriate right in the middle of the crisis in >> on that same day, the obama administration had the exact same position. let's recall, they disavowed their own statement they put out early in the day in cairo. it's never too early to speak out for our values. we should have spoken out right away when the green revolution
was starting, when the mullas in iran war attacking their people. we should not have called assad a reformer when he was turning russian provided guns on his own people. we should always stand up for peace, democracy and individual rights and not be imposing these devastating defense cuts. because what that does, when we show -- when we look weak, our enemies are much more willing to test us. and our allies are -- >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> why is that so? >> nothing he said is accurate. >> be specific. >> i will be very specific. number one, this lecture on embassy security. the congressman here cut embassy
security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for. number one. so much for the embassy security piece. number two, governor romney, before he knew the facts, before he knew that our ambassador was killed, he was out making a political statement, which was panned by the media around the world. and this talk about this weakness. i don't understand what my friend is talking about here. this is a president who has gone out and done everything he had said he was going to do. this is a guy who repaired our alliances so the rest of the world follows us again. this is a guy who brought the entire world, including russia and china to bring about the most devastating, most devastating efforts on iran to make sure that they in fact stop -- look, i just -- i mean, these guys bet against america all the time. >> let me go back to libya. who were you first told about
the attack? why were people talking about protests? when people in the consulate first saw armed men attacking with guns, there were no protesters. why did that go -- >> because that's exactly what we were told by the intelligence community. the intelligence community told us that, as they lrned more facts about exactly what happened, they changed their assessment. that's why there's also an investigation headed by a leading democrat from the reagan years, who is doing an investigation as to whether or not there were any lapses, what the lapses were so they will never happen again. >> they wanted more security there. >> we weren't told that. we did not know they wanted more security. and by the way, at the time, we were told exactly -- we said exactly what the intelligence communality told us that they knew. that was the assessment. as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it
clear they changed their view. that's why i said we will get to the bottom of this. usually when there's a crisis, we pull together. we pull together as a nation. but as i said, even before we knew what happened to the ambassador, the governor was holding a press conference. that's not presidential leadership. [ woman ] it's 32 minutes to go time, and the candidate's speech is in pieces all over the district. the writer's desktop and the coordinator's phone are working on a joke with local color. the secure cloud just received a revised intro from the strategist's tablet. and while i make my way into the venue, the candidate will be rehearsing off of his phone. [ candidate ] and thanks to every young face i see out there. [ woman ] his phone is one of his biggest supporters. [ female announcer ] with cisco at the center... working together has never worked so well. [ female announcer ] with cisco at the center... one is for a clean, wedomestic energy future
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>> mr. ryan, i want to ask you about the romney campaign talks a lot about no apologies. he has a book called "no apologies." should the u.s. have apologized for americans burning korans in afghanistan? should the u.s. apologize for u.s. marines urinating on taliban corpses? >> oh, gosh yes. urinating on taliban corpses. >> burning korans? >> what we should not apologizing for is standing up for our values or saying to the egyptian people that mubarak is a good guy and the next week say he ought to go. we should not reject claims for calls for more security. we need marines in benghazi when the commander on the ground says
we need more forces for security. there were requests for extra security. those requests were not honored. look, this was the anniversary of 9/11. it was libya. a country we knew we had al qaeda cells there, as we know al qaeda and its affiliates are on the rise in northern africa. and we did not give our ambassador in benghazi a marine detachment? of course there's an investigation so we can make sure this never happens again. but when it comes to speaking up for our values, we should not apologize for those. here's the problem. look at all the various issues out there, and it's unraveling before our eyes. the vice president talking about sanctions on iran. >> let's move to iran. i would like to move to iran. there's really no bigger
national security this country is facing. president obama and governor romney said they will prevent iran in getting a nuclear weapon, even if that means military action. last week, bob gates said a strike on iran's facilities would not work and "could prove catastrophic, haunting us for generations." can the two of you be absolutely clear and specific to the american people how effective would a military strike be? congressman ryan? >> we cannot allow iran to gain a nuclear weapon capability. let's take a look at where we've come from. when barack obama was elected, they had enough nuclear material to make one bomb. now they have enough for five. they're four years closer toward nuear weapons capability. we've had four different sanctions from the u.n., three from the bush administration and one here. mitt romney proposed these sang shuns in 2007. i proposed them in 2009. we had strong bipartisan support and we were able to overrule their objections and put them in despite the administration. do you think iran is not brazen? look at what they're doing. they tried a terrorist attack in the united states last year when they tried to blow up the saudi
ambassador at a restaurant in washington, d.c. talk about credibility. when this administration says that all options are on the table, they send out senior administration officials that send all these mixed signals. to solve this peacefully, which is everybody's goal, you have to have the eye ayatollahs change their mind. it's because this administration delayed sanctions. now we have sanctions in place because of congress. they say the military options are on the table, but it's not being viewed as credible. the key is to make sure we have credibility. medical record to solve this teasfully, which is everybody's goal, you have to have the ayatollahs change their minds. look where they are. they're moving faster towards a nuclear weapon. it's because this administration has no credibility on this issue. it's because this administration watered down sanctions, delayed sanctions, tried to stop us from putting the tough sanctions in place. now we have this them in place because of congress. they say the military option is on the table, but it's not being viewed as credible, and the key is to do this peacefully to make
sure we credibility. under the romney administration, we will have credibility on this issue. >> vice president biden. >> incredible. look, imagine had we let republican congress work out the sanctions. do you think there's any possibility the entire world would have joined us? russia and china? all of our allies? these are the most crippling sanctions in the history of sanctions, period, period. when governor romney is asked about it, he said we've got to keep these sanctions. are you going to go to war? is that what you want to do now?
>> we want to prevent war. >> how are they going to prevent war? they say there's nothing more we should do than what we've already done. number two, with regard to the ability to have the united states to take action militarily, it is not in my per view to talk about classified information, but we feel confident that we can deal a serious blow to the iranians. number two, the iranns are -- the israelis and the united states and the military intelligence communities are the same exact place in terms of how close, how close the iranians are to getting a nuclear weapon. they are a good way away. there is no difference between our view and theirs. when my friend talks about nuclear material, they have to take this highly enriched uranium, get it from 20% up and then have something to put it in. there is no weapon that the iranians have at this point. the israelis and we know, we'll know if they start the process of building a weapon. so all this bluster i keep hearing, all this loose talk, what are they talking about? are you talking about to believe more credible -- what more can
the president do, stand before the united nations, tell the whole world, directly communicate to the ayatollah, we will not let them acquire a nuclear weapon, period. unless he's talking about going to war. >> martha, let's just look at this from the view of the ayatollahs. what do they see? they see this administration trying to water down sanctions in congress for over two years. they're moving faster toward a nuclear weapon. they're spinning the centrifuges faster they see us coming into the administration, weeed more space with other ally, israel. they see president obama in new york city, the same day the prime minister of israel is here, instd of meeting with him, goes on a talk show. they see the defense secretary walk these sanctions back. they are not changing their mind. that's what we have to do is change their minds so they stop pursuing nuclear weapons. >> look, you both saw benjamin netanyu hold up with picture of a bomb with a red line and
talking about the red line be in spring. can you solve this, if the romney-ryan ticket is elected, can you solve this in two months before spring and avoid nuclear iran? >> we can debate the timeline, whether it's that short of time or longer. i agree that it's probably longer. number two, it's -- >> you don't agree with that bomb and what the israeli -- >> i don't want to go into classified stuff, but we both agree that to do this peacefully, you have to get them to change their minds. they're not changing their minds and look at what this administration does -- >> let me tell you what the ayatollahs sees. he sees his economy being crippled. the ayatollah sees there are 50% fewer exports of oil. he sees the currency going into the tank. he sees the economy going into a freefall. and he sees the world for the first time totally united in opposition to him getting a
nuclear weapon. with regard to netanyahu, he's been my friend for 39 years. the president has met with him a dozen times and spoken to him as much as he's spoken to nibble. i was -- just before he went to th conrence call with the president, with m talking to netanyahu for well over an hour. in stark relief and detail about what was going on. this is a bunch of stuff. look, here's the deal -- >> what does that mean, a bunch of stuff? >> it's simply inaccurate. >> it's irish. >> we irish call it malarkey. last thing, the secretary of defense hamade iear, w didn't walk anything back. we will not allow the iranians to get a nuclear weapon. what netanyahu held up was when they get to the point they can enrich uranium to put into a weapon. they don't have a weapon to put it into. iran is more isolated today than
when we took office. it is totally office. >> thank heavens we have these sanctions in place. it's in spite of their opposition. they have given 20 waivers to this sanction. all i have to point to are the results. they're four years closer to a nuclear weapon. >> by the way, who is worse, another war in the middle east -- >> they're closer to being able to get enough nuclear term to put in a weapon if they had a weapon. >> you're acting like they don't want one. >> facts matter, martha. facts matter. all this loose talk about all they have to do is get to enrich uranium and they have a weapon. not true. not true. they are more -- and if we ever have to take action, unlike when we took office, we'll have the world behind us.
and that matters. that matters. >> what about bob gates' statement? could prove catastrophic, haunting us for generations. >> he's right. >> congressman ryan? >> it undermines our credibility that all options are on the table. that's the point. the ayatollahs see these statements and think, i'm going to get a nuclear weapon. when we see the kind of equivocation that took place, because this administration wanted a precondition policy, so when the green revolution started up, they were silent for nine days. when say see us putting daylight between ourselves and our allies
in israel, that gives them encouragement. when they see russia watering down sanctions, when they see this kind of activity, they are encouraged to continue -- >> martha -- >> let me ask you what's worse, war in the middle east, another war in the middle east or a nuclear armed iran? >> i'll tell you what's worse. a nuclear armed iran triggers a nuclear arms race in the middle east. this is the world's largest sponsor of terrorism. they're dedicated to wiping off an entire country off the map, they call us the great satan. >> vice president biden? >> we can't live with that. >> war should always be the absolute last resort. that's why these crippling sanctions that netanyahu says we should continue and governor romney says we should continue. i may be mistaken. he changes his mind so off, i could be wrong. but the fact is, he says they're working.
and the fact is, that they are being crippled by them. and we've made it clear, big nations can't bluff. this president doesn't bluff. i'm barack obama, and i approve this message. "i'm not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. that's not my plan." mitchell: "the nonpartisan tax policy center concluded that mitt romney's tax plan would cost $4.8 trillion over 10 years." vo: why won't romney level with us about his tax plan, which gives the wealthy huge new tax breaks? because according to experts, he'd have to raise taxes on the middle class - or increase the deficit to pay for it. if we can't trust him here...
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economy, the number one issue here at home is jobs. the percentage of unemployed just fell 8% for the first time in 43 months. the obama administration had projected that it would fall below 6% now after the addition of close to a trillion dollars in stimulus money. will both of you level with the american people, can you get unemployment to under 6% and how >> i don't know how long it will take. we can and will get it under 6%. let's look at where we were when we came into office. the economy was in freefall. 9 million people lost their jobs. 1.6 trillion dollars of wealth lost in equity in your homes and retirement accounts for the middle class. we knew we had to act for the middle class and we went out and rescued general motors. we made sure that we cut taxes
for the middle class, and in addition to that, when that occurred, what did romney do? romney said no, let detroit go bankrupt. we moved in and helped people refinance their loans. governor romney says 47% of the american people are unwilling to take responsibility of their lives. my friend said 30% are takers. these people are my mom and dad, my neighbors. they pay more tax than governor romney pays. they are elderly people who in fact are living off of social security. there are veterans who are not quote not paying taxes. i've had it up to here with this notion -- instead of signing pledges not to ask the wealthiest among us to
contribute to bring back the middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class, we're going to level the playing field. we're going to give you a fair shot again. we are going to not repeat the mistakes we made in the past by having a different set of rules for wall street and main street. making sure that we continue to hemorrhage these tax cuts for the super wealthy. they're pushing the continuation of a tax cut that will give an additional $500 billion in tax cuts to 120,000 families. and they're holding hostage the middle class tax cut, because they say we won't pass, we won't continue the middle class tax cut unless you give it for the super wealthy. it's about time they take responsibility. >> mr. ryan? >> joe and i are from similar towns. we's from scranton, pennsylvania. i'm from janesville, wisconsin. you know what the unemployment rate in scranton is? it's 10%. the day you came into office it was 8. 5%. that's how it's going all around america.
>> that's not how it is, it's going down. >> did they inherit a tough situation? absolutely. but we're going in the wrong direction. look at where we are. the economy is barely limping along. it's growing at 1.3%. that's slower than last year and last year was slower than the year before. job growth in september was slower than it was in august and august was slower than july. we're heading in the wrong direction. 23 million americans are struggling for work today. 15% of americans are living in poverty today. this is not what a real recovery looks like. we need real reforms and that's what we're proposing. it's a five point plan. get america energy independent by the end of the decade.
help people that are hurting get the skills to get the job they want. make trade work for america so we can make more things in america. and sell them overseas and champion small businesses. don't raise taxes on small businesses because they're the job creators. he talks about detroit. mitt romney is a car guy. let me tell you about the mitt romney i know. this is a guy two i was talking to a family in massachusetts the other day. cheryl and mark nixon. their kids were hit in a car crash, four of them, two of them, rob and reed, were paralyzed. the romneys didn't know them. they went to the same church, they never met before. mitt asked if he would come over for christmas. he brought his wife and boys and gifts and later said, i know you're struggling, mark. don't worry about their college, i'll pay for it. when mark told me this story, he said it wasn't the cash lp. it's that he gave his time and he has consistently. this is a man who gave 30% of his income to charity, more than the two of us combined. mitt romney cares about 100% of
americans in this country. with respect to that quote, i think the vice president knows that words sometimes don't come out of your mouth the right way. >> but i always say what i mean. and so does romney. >> we want everybody to succeed. we want to get people out of poverty. we believe in opportunity. that's what we're going to push for in a romney administration. >> vice president? i have a feeling you have a few things to say here. >> the idea, if you heard that little quote about the 30%, if you think that, i've got a bridge to sell you.
i don't doubt his personal generosity. i understand what it's like. when i was a little younger than the congressman, my wife was in an accident, killed my daughter and my wife and my two sons survived. i've sat in the homes of many people that have gone through what i have gone through. so i don't doubt his personal commitment to individuals. but you know what? i know he had no commitment to the automobile industry. he said let it go bankrupt, period. let it drop out. all this talk, we saved a million jobs. 200,000 people are working today. and i've never met two guys more down on america across the board. we're told everything is going badly. 5. 2 million new jobs, private sector jobs. we need more. but 5. 2 million. if they would get out of the way and let us pass the tax cut for the middle class and make it permanent. if they would let us allow 14 million people struggling to stay in their homes because
their mortgages are upside down, just get out of the way. stop talking about how you care about people. show me something. show me a policy. show me a policy where you take responsibility. and by the way, they talk about this great recession as if it fell out of the sky, like oh, my goodness, where it did come from? it came from this man voting to put two cars on a credit card, at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the wealthy. i voted against them. i said no, we can't afford that. now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with the concern about the debt that they created -- >> congressman ryan? >> let's not forget that they came in with one party control. when barack obama was elected, his party controlled everything. they had the ability to do everything of their choosing and look at where we are right now. they passed the stimulus.
the idea that we could borrow $831 billion, spend it on these special interest groups and it would work out just fine. that unemployment would never get to 8%. they said right now if we just pass this stimulus, the economy would grow at 4%. it' growing at 1.3%. >> when did you get it below 6%? >> that's the entire premise of our plan. getting the economy growing at 4%. creating 12 million jobs in four years. $90 billion in green pork to campaign contribute fors and special interest groups. just at the department of energy, there are over 100 criminal investigations that have been launched -- >> martha, look, his colleague runs an investigative commite, spent months and months going -- >> this is the inspector general. >> months and months. they found no evidence of
cronyism. and i love my friend here. i am not allowed to show letters, but go to our website. he sent me two letters saying, by the way, can you send me some stimulus money for companies here in the state of wisconsin? we sent millions of dollars. >> you did ask for stimulus money, correct? >> on two occasions, we advocated for constituents applying for grants. that's what we do. we do that for all constituents. >> i love that. this is such a bad program and he writes me a letter staying, the reason we need this stimulus, it will create growth and jobs. his words. and now he's sitting here looking at me, and by the way, that program, again, investigated. what the congress said was, it was a model.
less than 0.4% waste or fraud in the program. all this talk about cronyism. they investigated and did not find any evidence. i wish he would be a little more candid. >> was it a good idea to spend taxpayer dollars on cars in finland or wind mills in china. was it a good idea to borrow this money from china and spend it on these interest groups? >> it was a good idea to stop us from going off the cliff and set the conditions to grow again. we have in fact 4% of those green jobs didn't go under. it's a better batting average than investment bankers had. >> where are the 5 million green jobs -- >> i want to move on here to medicare and entitlements. n.ndy the way, any letter u i appreat]e that, joe. leave. i have retired from doing this one thing that i loved. now, i'm going to be able to have the time to explore something different.
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>> both medicare and social security are going broke and taking a larger share of the budget in the process. will benefits for americans under these programs have to change for the programs to survive, mr. ryan? >> absolutely. medicare and social security are going bankrupt. these are indisputable facts. when i look at these programs, we've all had tragedies in our lives. i think about what they've done for my own family. my mom and i had my grandmother move in with us facing alzheimer's. medicare was there for us. after my dad died, my mom and i got social security and paid for college benefits. helped her go back to college in her 50s. he paid all of her taxes on the
promise that these programs would be there for her. we will honor these promises. you see, if you reform these programs for my generation, people 54 and below, you can guarantee they don't change for people in or near retirement, h g. look what obama care does. it takes $716 billion from medicare to spend on obama care. you caensameto medamca. mecayear eh hat will lead to denial of care for current seniors. this board is 15 people. the president is supposed to appoint them next year, and not even one of them needs medical training. if we don't shore up social security, when we run out of the
iou's, when the program goes bankrupt, a 25% across the board benefit cut kicks in on current seniors in the middle of their retirement. we're going to stop that from happening. they haven't put a credible solution on the table. he'll tell you about vouchers and say all these things to scare people. give younger people, when they become medicare eligible, aranteed coverage options that you can't be denied, including traditional medicare. more coverage for middle income people and total out of pocket coverage for the poor and sick. choice and competition. we would rather have 50 million future seniors determine how their medicare is delivered to them, instead of 15 bureaucrats deciding what, when, if and where they get it. >> i heard that death panel argument from sarah palin. let's talk about medicare. what we did is we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to medicare. we cut the cost of medicare. we stopped overpaying insurance companies.
the ama supported what we did. aarp endorsed what we did. and it extends the life of medicare to 2024. they want to wipe this all out. itlso gave more benefits. any senior out there, ask yourself, do you have more benefits today? you do. if you're near the doughnut hole, you have $600 more to help your prescription drug cost. you get wellness visits without co-pays. they wiped this out and medicare becomes insolvent in 2016. when they first posed the first voucher program, the cbo said it would cost $6,400 a year, martha, more for every senior 55 and below when they got there. he knew that. yet he got all the guys in congress to vote for it. governor romney, knowing that, said i would sign it were i
there. who do you believe? the ama, me, a guy who has fought his whole life for this or somebody who put in motion a plan that knowingly cuts -- added $6,400 a year more to the cost of medicare. now they've got a new plan. trust me, it's not going to cost you anymore. folks, follow your instincts on this one. and with regard to social security, we will not -- we will not privatize it. if we had listened to romney, governor romney and the congressman during the bush years, imagine where all those seniors would be now if their money had been in the market. their ideas are old and bad and they eliminate the guarantee of medicare. >> here's the problem. they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, turning medicare into a piggy bank for obama care.
their own actuary from the administration came to congress and said 1 out of 6 hospitals and nursing homes are going to go out of business as a result of this. 7.4 million seniors are projected to lose the coverage they have, that's the $3,200 benefit cut. these are from your own actuaries. >> more people signed up for medicare advantage after the change. nobody is -- >> mr. vice president, i know -- mr. vice president i know you're under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but people would be better served if we don't keep interrupting each other. >> don't take all the four minutes again. >> we're saying don't change benefits for people 55 and above. >> let me ask you this, what is your specific plan for seniors who really can't afford to make up the difference in the value of what you call a premium support plan and others call a voucher? >> 100% coverage. that's what we're saying. we're saying -- >> how do you make that up?
>> taking down subsidies for wealthy people. by that way, that $6,400 number was misleading. this is a bipartisan plan. i put it together with a prominent democratic senator in -- >> there's not one democrat who endorses it. >> our partner is a democrat from oregon. >> and he says he no longer supports it. >> we put it together with the former clinton -- >> who disavows it. >> here's the point, martha. if we don't fix this problem soon, then current seniors get cut. here's the problem. 10,000 people are retiring every day in america today and they will for 20 years. that's not a political thing, that's a math thing. >> if we just -- if they just allow medicare to bargain for the cost of drugs like medicaid can, that would save $156
billion right off the bat. >> and it would deny seniors choices. >> seniors are not denied. >> absolutely. >> look, folks, all you seniors out there, have you been denied choices? have you lost medicare advantage? >> vice president biden, if it could help solve the problem, why not slowly raise the medicare eligibility age by two years? >> look, i was there when we did that with social security in 1983. i was one of eight people sitting in a room that included tip o'neill negotiating with president reagan. we all got together and everybody said, as long as everybody is in the deal, everybody is in the deal, and everybody is making some sacrifice, we can find a way. we made the system solvent to 2033. we will not, though, be part of any voucher plan eliminating -- the voucher says, mom, when you're 65, go out there, shop for the best insurance you can get.
you're out of medicare, you can buy back in with this voucher, which will not keep case with health care costs. because if it did keep pace, there would be no savings. that's why they go the voucher. we will be no part of a voucher program or the privatization of social security. >> a voucher is you go to your mailbox, get a check and buy something. nobody is proposing that. barack obama four years ago staid, if you don't have any fresh ideas, use stale tactics to scare voters. if you don't have a good record to run on, paint your opponent as someone to run from. >> you were one of the few to stand with president bush when he was seeking to partially private size social security. >> what we said then is let younger americans have a voluntary choice of making their money work fasts for them within the social security system. that's not what mitt romney is proposing. we're saying no changes for
anybody 55 and over. and then the kinds of changes we're talking about for younger people like myself is don't increase the benefits for people like myself. >> martha -- martha -- >> here's the -- >> quickly, vice president. >> quickly, the bottom line is that all the studies show if we went with social security proposals made by mitt romney, if you're in your 40s now, you'll pay $2,600 a year -- you get $2,600 a year less in social security. if you're in your 20s, you get $4,700 a year less. the idea of changing and change being in this case to cut the benefits for people without taking other action you could do to make it work is absolutely the wrong way. look, these guys haven't been big on medicare from the beginning.
and they've always been about social security, as little as you can do. look, folks, use your common sense. who do you trust on this? a man who introduced a bill that would raise it $6,400 a year, knowing it and passing it and romney saying you sign it or me and the president. >> that was completely misleading. this is what politicians do when they don't have a record to run on. try to scare people from voting for you. if you don't get ahead of this problem, it's going to -- >> medicare beneficiaries -- >> we're going to moven. i have a simple question -- >> medicare and social security did so much for my own family. we're not going to jeopardize the program. >> you are changing the program from a guaranteed benefit to a premium -- whatever you call it, the bottom line is people will have to pay more out of their own pocket. >> the wealthy will. >> and the families i come from don't have the money. >> gentlemen, i would like to move on to a simple question and something tells me i won't get a simple answer.
on to taxes. if your ticket is elected, who will pay more and who will pay n taxes, vice president? >> the middle class will pay less and people making a million p has tasty pieces of chicken with rice and beans. you know the giants don't have a mascot right mom? [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right. these are sandra's "homemade" yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one. silverado! the most dependable, longest lasting, full-size pickups on the road. so, what do you think? [ engine revs ]
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include reactions at the injection site, weight gain, swelling ofour hands and feet, and vision changes. other serious side effects include low blood sugar and low potassium in your blood. get medical help right away if you experience serious allergic reactions, body rash, trouble with breathing, fast heartbeat, sweating, or if you feel faint. i would have started flexpen sooner, but i thought it would cost more. turns out it's covered by my insurance plan. thanks to flexpen, vial and syringe are just a memory. ask your doctor about novolog mix 70/30 flexpen, covered by 90% of insunce plans, including medicare. find your co-pay at myflexpen.com. if your ticket is elected, who will pay more and who will pay less in taxes, vice president? >> the middle class will pay less and people making a million dollars will pay slightly more. the continuation of the bush tax cuts, we're arguing the tax cuts
for the wealthy should be allowed to expire. $800 billion of that goes to people making a minimum of $1 million. we see no justification, they're patriotic americans. they're not asking for this continued tax cut. they're not suggesting it. my friends are insisting on it. 120,000 families, by continuing that tax cut, will get an additional $500 billion in tax relief in the next ten years. their income is an average of $8 million. we want to extend permanently the middle class tax cut permanently, from the bush middle class tax cut. these guys won't allow us to. you know what they're saying? we say let's have a vote on the middle class tax cut and have a vote on the upper tax cut. let's vote on it. they're staying no.
they're holding hostage the middle class tax cut to the super wealthy. on top of that, they've got another tax cut coming that's $5 trillion that all of the studies point out will give another $250 million -- yeah, $250,000 a year to those 120,000 families, and raise taxes for people two are middle income with a child by $2,000 a year. this is unconscionable. there is no need for this. the middle class got knocked on their heels. the great recession crushed them. thy need some help now. the last people who need help are 120,000 families for under $500 billion tax cut over the next ten years. >> congressman? >> our entire premise of these tax plans are to grow the economy and create jobs. it's estimated to create 7 million jobs. we think that government taking 28% of a family and business's
income is enough. president obama thinks that the government ought to be able to take as much as 44.8% of a small business's income. look, if you taxed every person in a successful small business making over $250,000 at 100%, it would only run the government for 98 days. if everybody who paid taxes last year doubled their taxes this year, we would still have a $300 billion deficit. you see, there aren't enough rich people and small businesses to tax to pay for all their spending. and so the next time you hear them say, don't worry about it, we'll get a few wealthy people to pay their fair share, watch out, middle class, the tax bill is coming to you. that's why we're saying we need
punishment tax reform. let's look at it this way. 8 out of 10 businesses, they file their taxes as individuals, not corporations. where i come from overseas, which is lake superior, the canadians, they drop their tax rates to 15%. the average tax rate on businesses in the industrialized world is 25% and the president wants the effective top tax rate to go above 40%. 2/3 of our jobs come from small businesses. this one tax would actually fax about 53% of small business income. it's expected to cost us 710,000 jobs. and it doesn't even pay for 10% of the proposed deficit spending increases. we're saying close loopholes primarily to the higher income people. we have three bottom lines. don't raise the deficit. don't raise taxes on the middle class. and don't lower the share of income born by the high income earners. he'll keep saying this $5 trillion plan. it's been discredited by six other studies and their own deputy campaign manager acknowledged it wasn't correct. >> let's talk about this 20%.
you have refused to offer specifics on how you pay for that 20% across the board tax cut. do you actually have the specifics or are you still working on it and that's why you won't tell voters? >> different than this administration, we want to have big bipartisan agreements. see, i understand -- >> do you have the specifics, do you have the -- >> that would be the first in a republican congress. >> look at what ronald reagan and tip o'neill did. they worked together to broaden the base and lower tax rates. what we're saying is, here is our frame work. lower tax rates 20%. we raise about $1.2 trillion through income taxes. we forego about $1.1 trillion in loopholes and deductions. so what we're sayg is s >>et to lower tax rates
across the board. here's why i'm saying this. >> i hope i'm getting a timed response. >> you'll get time. >> we want to work with congress on how best to achieve this. that means successful -- >> no specifics, again. >> what we're saying is lower tax rates 20%. start with the wealthy. work with congress. >> can you guarantee this math will add up? >> absolutely. >> six study advisory guaranteed. six study advisory verified this math adds up. >> vice president biden. vice president biden. >> let me translate. let me have a chance to translate. >> i'll come back in a second then, right? >> i was there when ronald reagan -- he gave specifics to what he was going to cut, number one, in terms of tax expenditures. number two, 97% of the small businesses in america pay less than -- make less than $250,000. let me tell you who some of those other small businesses are. hedge funds that make $600 million, $700 million a year. that's what they count as small businesses because they're pass-through. let's look at how sincere they are. ronald -- excuse me. governor romney on "60 minutes" i guess it was about ten days ago was asked, governor, you pay
14% on $20 million. someone making $50,000 pays more than that. do you think that's fair? he said, oh, yes, that's fair. that's fair. they're going to talk -- you think these guys are going to go out there and cut those loopholes? the loophole -- the biggest loophole they take advantage of is the cared interest loophole, and capital gains loophole. they exempt that. now, there's not enough -- the reason why the aei study,he american enterprise institute study, the tax policy centers study, the reason they all say it's going to tax go up in the middle class, the only waynd $5 loopholes is cut the mortgage deduction for middle class people, cut the health care deduction, middle class people, take away their ability to get a tax break to send their kids to college. that's why they arrive -- >> is he wrong about that? >> he is wrong about that. you can cut tax rates by 20% and still preserve these important preferences for middle class taxpayers. >> not mathematally possible. >> it is mathematically
possible. it's been done before. it's precisely what we're proposing. >> it's never been done before. >> it's been done a couple of times. >> jack kennedy lowered -- >> oh, now you're jack kennedy. >> ronald reagan. this is amazing. >> republicans and democrats have worked together on this. >> that's right. >> i understand you guys aren't used to doing bipartisan deals. >> here are the things we're going to cut. this is what he said. >> we're going to fill in the details. >> fill in the details. >> that's how you get things done. you work with congress. let me say this this way. >> that's coming from the republican congress working bipartisanly, 7% rating. >> mitt romney was governor of massachusetts where 87% of the legislators he searched with were democrats. he didn't demonize them. he didn't demagogue them. he met with those party leaders every week. he reached across the aisle. he didn't compromise principles. >> you saw what happened. if he did such a great job -- if he did such a great job in massachusetts, why isn't he even
contested massachusetts? >> let them expire on those millionaires? we can't afford $800 billion going to people making a minimum of $1 million. they do not need it, martha. those 120,000 families make $8 million a year. middle class people need the help. why does he go after child -- >> can you declare -- can you declare anything off limits? >> we're saying close loopholes on high interest people. >> can you guarantee that no one making less than $100,000 have a mortgage -- >> this mortgage deduction impacted. >> this tax --s a million small businesses. he keeps trying to make you think that it's justo movie star or hedge fund guy or -- >> 97% of the small businesses make less than $250,000 a year
and would not be affected. >> this taxes one million people. a million small businesses. >> it affects 90% of the small businesses? >> it afters small business that is are the greatest job createors. >> and you're going to increase the defense budget. and you're going to increase the defense budget. >> we're not going to cut the defense budget. they're proposing -- >> $2 billion. $2 trillion. >> we're talking about -- >> so no massive -- >> we're saying -- okay, you want to get into defense now. >> yes, i do. i do, because that's another math question. how do you do that? >> so they proposed a $470 billion cut to defense to begin with. now we have another $500 billion cut to defense that's lurking on the horizon. they insisted upon that cut being involved in the debt negotiations. now we have a $1 trillion -- >> let's put the defense cuts aside. no one wants that, but i want to know how you do the math and have this increase in defense. >> you don't cut defense by $1
trillion. that's what we're talking about. >> what national security issue can justify an increase? >> we're going to cut 80,000 soldiers, 20,000 marines, 120 cargo planes. we're going on push the joint -- >> this invites weakness. look, do we believe in peace, you bet we do, and that means you don't impose these devastating cuts on our military. we're saying don't cut the military by $1 trillion. not increase it by $1 is trillion. don't cut it by $1 trillion. >> quickly, vice president biden. might want to move on. >> we don't cut it. i might add, i know we don't want to use fancy words to question this automatic cut. that was part of a debt deal that they asked for, and let me tell you at my friend said at a press conference announcing he supported t deal. he said we've been looking for this moment for a long time.
>> i tell you what that meant? >> automatic cuts in defense that they didn't act, and beyond that they ask for another -- look, the military says we need asmaller, lr army. we need more special forces. we need -- did he don't need more than -- we need more uav's. not some of the military. that was the decision of the joint chiefs of staff. recommended to us and agreed to by the president. >> who answer to the civilian leader? >> they made the recommendation first. [ male announcer ] whether it's kevin's smartphone...
the definite secretary is worried about ameri ber security. leon panetta spoke to business leaders in new york. told them some recent large scale hacking incidents show power grids and transportation systems are vulnerable to electronic attack. panetta wants congress to urgently pass cyber security legislation. the nobel peace prize this year goes to the european union.
the 27-nation was honored for its work promoting democracynd reconciliation since world war ii. the committee also praised it econ5zj cs.and this is amazing. a spectacular sight in los angeles today. the space shuttle endeavour is rolling through the streets headed to its final resting place, the california science center. the 12-mile trip will take two days, and crdsre lining the route to get a glimpse of the shuttle before it goes on display october 30th. and now we return you to our encore showing of last night's vice presidential debate. >> i would like to move on to afghanistan, and that's one of the biggest expenditures this country has made. in dollars and more importantly, in lives. we just pas sad milestone ofosing 2,00 u.s. troops there in this war. more than 50 of them were killed this year by the very afghan
forces we are trying to help. now, weave reached the recruiting goal for afghan forces. we have degraded al qaeda. so they will me, why not leave now? what more can we really accomplish? is it worth more american lives? >> we don't want to lose the gains we've gotten. we want to make sure that the taliban sdpt come back in and give al qaeda a safe haven. we agree with the administration on their 2014 transition. look, when i think about afghanistan, i think about the incredible job that our troops have done. you've been there more than the two of us combined. first time i was there in 2002 it was amazing to me what they were facing. i went to kandahar before the surge. i sat down with a young private in the 82nd from the indian reservation who would tell me what he did every day, and infantries awe, and to see what they had in front of them, and then to go back there in december to go throughout helmand with the marines to see what they had accomplished. it's nothing short of amazing.
what we don't want to do is lose the gains we've gotten. now, we've disagreed from time to time on a few issues. we would have more likely taken into account the recommendation from our commanders, general petraeus, mull land on troop levels throughout this year's fighting season. we've been skeptical about negotiations with the taliban. especially while they're shooting at us. we want to see the 2014 transition be successful, and that means we want to make sure our commanders have what they need to make sure that it is successful so that this does not once again become a launching pad for terrorists. >> let's keep our eye on the ball. the reason i have been in afghanistan and iraq 20 times. i have been up in the cone ar valley. i have been throughout that whole country. mostly in a helicopter and sometimes in a vehicle. the fact is we went there for one reason. to get those people who killed americans. al qaeda. we decimated al qaeda central.
we have eliminated osama bin laden. that was our purpose. in fact, in the meantime when we said we would do, we would help train the afghan military. it's their responsibility to take over their own security. that's why with 49 of our allies in afghanistan, we've agreed on a gradual drawdown so we're out of there by the year -- in the year 2014. my friend and the governors say it's based on conditions, which means it depends. it does not depend for us. it is the responsibility of the afghans to take care of their own security. we have trained over 315,000 mostly without incident. there have been more than two dozen cases of green on blue, where americans have been killed. if we do not -- if the measures the military has taken do not take hold, we will not go on
joint patrols. we will not train the field. we will only train in the army base that is exist there, but we are leaving. we are leaving in 2014, period. in the process we are going to be saving over the next ten years another $800 billion. we've been in this war for over a decade. the primary objective is almost completed. now all we're doing is putting the kabul government in a position to be able to main than their own security. >> what could justify staying congressman ryan? >> look, one of my best friends in janzville, reservist at a base in eastern afghanistan reason. our wives are best friends. our daughters are best friends. i want him and all of our troops to come home as soon and safely
as possible. we want to maker the 2014 is successful. that's why we want to make sure that we give our commanders what they say they need to make it successful. we don't want to extend beyond 2014. that's the point we're making me. you know, if it was just this i 2350e8 like we would be able to call this a success, but it's not. what we are witnessing as we turn on our television screens these days is the absolute unraveling of the obama foreign policy. problems are growing abroad, but jobs aren't growing here at home. >> let me go back to this. he says we're absolutely leaving in 2014. you're saying that's not an absolute, but you won't talk about what conditions would justify that. >> you know why we say that? because we don't want to broadcast to our enemies put a date on your calendar, wait us out, and then come back. >> but you agree with the timeline? >> we do -- we do agree with the timeline and the transition, but
what we -- what any administration will do in 2013 is assess the situation to see how best to complete this timeline. what we do not want to do is give our allies reason to trust us less and our enemies more -- we don't want to embolden our enemies to hold and wait out for us and then take over -- >> martha, that's a bizarre statement. that's a bizarre statement. 49 of our allies. hear me. 49 of our allies signed on to this position. it's the spopt of the afghans. we have other responsibilities. >> we have -- we have soldiers and marines. we have afghan forces murder in.
the taliban -- >> what we've found out -- you saw it in iraq, martha. unless you set a timeline, baghdad in the case of iraq and kabul in the case of afghanistan will not step up. they're happy to let us continue to do the job. international security forces. the only way they step up and say, fellows, we're leaving. we've trained you. step up. step up. >> let me go back -- >> that's the only way it works. >> let me go back to the surge troops that we put in there, and you brought this up, congressman ryan. >> what was the military reason for bringing those surge troops home before fighting ended? >> when the president announced the surge, you'll remember,
martha, he said the surge will be out by the end of the summer. the military said the surge will be out. nothing political about this. before the surge occurred, so you be a little straight with me here too. before the surge occurred we said.hey'll be out by the end the reason for that is. >> trust me. there are people truly concerned about pulling out wh the fighting is -- >> there are people concerned, but not the joint chiefs. that was their recommendation in the oval office to the president of the united states of america. i sat there. i'm sure you'll find someone who disagrees with the pentagon. i'm positive you'll find that within the military. but that's not the case here. secondly, the reason why the military said that is you cannot wait and have a cliff. it takes, you know, months and months and months to draw down
forces. >> let me illustrate the issue here because i think this can get a little confusing. we want them in afghanistan to talk about fighting seasons. here's the way it works. the terrorists and the economy and the -- they come over from pakistan to fight our men and women. at's what we call fighting seasons, and in the warm months, fighting gets really high, and hen in the winter it gs down. when admiral mullen and general petraeus come to congress and said if you pull these people out before the fighting season's end, it puts people more at risk. that's the problem. yes, we drew the 22,000 troops down last month, but the remaining troops that are there who still have the same mission to prosecute counter insurgency are doing it with fewer people. that makes them less safe. we're sending fewer people out in all these hot spots to do the same job that they were supposed
to do a month ago, but we took 22,000 people out for them to do it. >> turnover to the afghan troops we trained. no one got pulled out that didn't get filled in by trained afghan personnel. he is conflating two issues. the fighting season that petraeus was talking about and former -- and admiral mullen was the fighting season this spring. that's what he was talking about. we did not -- we did not pull them out. >> the calendar work the same every year. >> it does work the same every year. >> spring, summer, fall. it's warm or it's not. they're still fighting us. they're still coming over the passes. they're still coming in to zabul to kunar, all of these areas, but we are sending fewer people to the front to fight them. >> that's right, because that's the afghan responsibility. we've trained them. >> not in the east. >> let's move to another war. >> not in the east? >> not in the east.
>> the east is the most dangerous place in the world. >> that's why we don't want to send fewer people. sdoo that's why we should send americans in to do the job. you would rather americans be going in and doing the job -- >> we e already sending americans to do the job, but fewer of them. that's -- >> that's righ we're sngn a to do the job. afghans to do the job. when you take a closer look... ...at the best schools in the world... ...you see they all have something very interesting in common. they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. let's develop more stars in education. let's invest in our teachers... ...so they can inspire our students.
let's move to the civil war in syria. there are estimates that more than 25,000, 30,000 people have now been killed. in march of last year president obama explained the military action taken in libya by saying it was in the national interest to go in and prevent further massacres from occurring there. >> it's darcht country. it is five times as large
geographically. it has it's in a part of the world where you're not going to see whatever would come from that war. it would seep into a regional war. you are in a country that is heavily populated amidst the most dangerous area in the world, and, if, many of the, it blows up and the wrong people gain control, it's going to have impact on the entire region causing potentially regional wars. we are working hand in glove with the turks, with the jordanians, with the saudis, and with all the people in the region. attempting to identify the people who deserve the help so that when assad goes and he will go, there will be a legitimate government that follows on. not an al qaeda sponsored government that follows on. all this loose talk have my friend governor romney and the congressman about how we are going to do -- we could do so
much more in there. what more would they do other than put american boots on the ground? the last thing america needs is to get in another ground war in the middle east requiring tens of thousands, if not well over 100,000 american forces. that -- they are the facts. they are the facts. now, every time the governor is asked about this, he doesn't say anything. he goes up with a whole lot of verbage, but when he gets pressed, he says, no, he would not do anything different than we are doing now. are they po proposing american troops on the ground, putting american aircraft in the airspace? is that what they're proposing? if they do, they should speak up and say so, but that's not what they're saying. we are doing it exactly like we need to do to identify those forces who, in fact, will provide for a stable government and not cause a regional
sunni-shia war when bashir assad falls. >> nobody is proposing to send american troops to syria. let me say it this way. how would we do things differently? we wouldn't refer to bashar assad as a reformer when he is killing his own civilians with his russian-provided weapons. we wouldn't be outsourcing our foreign policy to the united nations giving vladimir putin veto power over our efforts to try and deal with this issue. he has vetoed three of them. hillary clinton went to russia to try and convince him not to do so. they thwarted her efforts. they said she was on the wrong side of history. they were right about that. where are we? after international pressure mounted, then president obama said bashar assad should go. it's been over a year. the man has slaughtered tens of thousands of his own people, and more foreign fighters are spilling into this country. so the longer this has gone on,
the more people -- groups like al qaeda are going in. we could have more easily identified the free syrian army, the freedom fighters working with our allies, the turks, the qataris, the saudis, had we had a better plan in place to begin with, working through our allies, but, no, we waited for kofi annan to try to come up with an agreement through the u.n. that bought bashar assad time. we gave russia veto power over our efforts through the u.n., and, meanwhile, about 30,000 syrians are dead. >> what would my friend do differently? have you noticed he never answers the question. >> we would not be going through the u.n. in all of these things. >> you don't go through the u.n. we are in the process now and have been for months in making sure that help, humanitarian aid as well as other aid and training is getting to those
forces that we believe the saudis believe. that is underway. our allies are all on the same page. nato as well as our arab allies. in terms of trying to get a settlement. we are the ones that said enough. with regard to the reset not working, the fact of the matter is that russia has a different interest in syria than we do, and that's not in our interest. >> what happens if assad does not fall? congressman ryan? what happens to the region? what happens if he hangs on? what happens if he does? >> then iran keeps their greatest ally in the region. he is a sponsor of terrorism. he will probably continue slaughtering his people. we in the world community will lose our credibility on this. look, he mentioned the reset -- >> what would romney-ryan do? >> we agree with the same red line they do on chemical weapons, but not putting american troops in other than to
secure those chemical weapons. they're right about that. but what we should have done earlier is work with those freedom fighters, those dissidents. we should not have called bashar assad a reformer? >> what's your criteria -- >> we should not have waited for russia to give us the green light at the u.n. to do something about this. >> russia -- >> they're still arming the man. iran is flying flights over iraq -- >> and the opposition is being harmed. >> to help bashar assad. by the way, if we had the status of forces agreement that the vice president said he would bet his vice presidency on in iran, we probably could have prevented that, but he failed to achieve that as well. >> let me ask you quickly what's your criteria for intervention? >> yeah. >> in syria? >> worldwide. >> what is in the national interest of the american people. >> how about humanitarian interests? >> security of the american people. it's got to be in the strategic national interest of our country. >> no humanitarian? >> each situation will come up
with its own set of circumstances, but putting american troops on the ground, that's got to be within the national security interest of the american people. >> i want to -- we're almost out of time here. >> embargoes and sanctions and overflights, those are things that don't put american troops on the ground, but if you are talking about putting american troops on the ground, only in our national security interests. ♪ ♪
♪ hi dad. many years from now, when the subaru is theirs... hey. you missed a spot. ...i'll look back on this day and laugh. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. i"i'm not in favor of a a$5 trillion tax cut. that's not my plan." mitchell: "the nonpartisan tax policy center concluded that mitt romney's tax plan would cost $4.8 trillion over 10 years." vo: why won't romney level with us about his tax plan, which gives the wealthy huge new tax breaks? because according to experts, he'd have to raise taxes on the middle class - or increase the deficit to pay for it. if we can't trust him here... how could we ever trust him here? and i was told to call my next of kin. at 33 years old, i was having a heart attack. now i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i didn't know this could happen so young.
>> i want to move on and return home for the last few questions. this dough bait is, indeed, historic. we have twol catholic candidates, first time on a stage such as this. i would like to ask you both to tell me what role your religion has played in your own personal views on abortion. please talk about how you came to that decision, talk about how your religion played a part in that, and please, this is such an emotional issue for so many
people in this country, please talk personally about this if you could. congressman ryan. >> i don't see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith. our faith informs us in everything we do. my faith informs me about how to take care of the vulnerable, about how to make sure that people have a chance in life. now, you want to ask basically why i'm pro-life. it's not simply because of my catholic faith. that's a factor, of course. butt it's also because of reason and science. i think about ten and a half years ago. my wife and i went to mercy hospital in janesville where i was born for our 7-week ultrasound for our first child, and we saw that heart beat. our ltle baby was in the shape of ae bean, and to this day we
have nicknamed ourt born child, liza, bean. hmm. now, i believe that life begins at conception. that's why those are the reasons why i'm pro-life. now, i understand this is a difficult issue, and i respect people who don't agree with me on this, but the policy of a mney admtr will be to oppose abortion with the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother. what troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. look at what they're doing through obama care with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. they're infringing upon our first freedom. the freedom of religion by infringing on catholic charities, catholic churches, catholics hospitals. our church should not have to sue our federal government to maintain their religious liberties, and with respect to abortion, the democratic party used to say they wanted to be
safe, legal, and rare, and now they support it without restriction and with taxpayer funding. taxpayer funding with obama care and foreign aid. the vice president himself went to china and said that he sympathized or wouldn't second guess their one-child policy of forced abortions and stelilizations. that to me is pretty extreme. >> vice president biden. >> my religion defines who i am, and i've been a practicing catholic my whole life. it has formed my social doctrine. catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who can't take care of themselves, people who feed help. with regard to abortion, i accept my church's position on abortion as a -- what we call -- life begins at conception.
that's the church's judgment. i accept it in my personal life, but i refuse to impose it on equally devout christians and muslims and jews. i just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the congressman. i do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that -- women that they can't control their body. it's a decision between them and their doctor in my view and the supreme court. i'm not going to interfere with that. with regard to the assault on the catholic church, let me make it absolutely clear. no religious institution catholic or otherwise including catholic social services, georgetown hospital, any hospital, none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception into any insurance policy they provide.
that is a fact. that is a fact. now, with regard to the way in which we differ. my friend says that he -- well, i guess he accepts governor romney's position now because in the past he has argued that there was race, and forcible rape. haez argued in the case of rape or incest it was still -- it would be a crime to engage in having an abortion. i just fundamentally disagree with my friend. >> congressman ryan. >> all i'm saying is if you believe that life begins at conception, that, therefore, doesn't change the definition of life. that's a principle. the policy of a romney administration is to oppose abortion with exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother. now, i've got to take issue with the catholic church and religious liberty. >> you have taken issue with the catholic social doctrine. >> why would they keep suing
you? it's a distinction without a difference. >> i want to go back to the abortion issue here. if the romney-ryan ticket is elected, should those who believe that abortion should remain legal be worried? >> we don't think that unelected judges should make this decision that people through their elected representatives and reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process should make this determination. >> the court -- the next president will get one or two supreme court nominees. that's how close roe v. wade is. just ask yourself. with robert bork being the chief advisor of the court for mr. romney, who do you think he is likely to appoint? do you think he is likely to appoint someone like scalia or someone else on the court, far right, that would outlaw planned -- outlaw abortion? i suspect that would happen. i guarantee you that will not
happen. we picked two people. we pick people open-minded. they've been good justices, so keep an eye on the supreme court. >> was there a litmus test on them? >> there was no litmus test. we picked people with an open-mind and did not come with an agenda. th me, i went to the citi private pass page and decided to be...not boring. that's how i met marilyn... giada... really good. yes! [ jack ] ...and alicia. ♪ this girl is on fire [ male announcer ] use any citi card to get the benefits of private pass. more concerts, more events, more experiences. [ jack ] hey, who's boring now? [ male announcer ] get more access with the citi card. [ crowd cheering, mouse clicks ] your doctor will say get smart about your weight. i tried weight loss plans... but their shakes aren't always made for people with diabetes. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. and they have six grams of sugars.
>> your son has serve and perhaps someday your children will serve as well. i recently spoke to a highly decorated soldier who said that this presidential campaign has left him dismayed. he told me, "the ads are so negative and they are all tearing down each other rather than building up the country." what would you say to that american hero about this campaign, and at the end of the day, are you ever embarrassed by the tone? vice president biden. >> i would say to him the same thing i say to my son who did serve a year in iraq. that we only have one truly sacred obligation as a government. that's to equipped those we send into harm's way and care for those that come home. that's the only sacred obligation we have. everything else falls behind that. i would also tell him that the
fact that he, this decorated soldier you talked about, fought for his country. that that should be honored. he should not be thrown into a category of the 47% who don't pay their taxes while he was out there fighting and not having to pay taxes. and somehow not taking responsibility. i would also tell him that there are things that have occurred in this campaign and occur in every campaign that i'm sure both of us regret anyone having said, particularly in these special new groups that can go out there, raise all the money they want, not have to identify themselves and say the most scurrilous things about the other candidate. it's an abomination, but the bottom line here is i would ask that hero you referenced to take a look at whether or not governor romney or president obama has the conviction to help lift up the middle class, restore them to where they were
before this great recession hit and they got wiped out. or whether or not he is going to continue to focus oak care of only the very wealthy, not asking them to make -- pay any part of the deal to bring them -- bring back the middle class, the economy of this country. i would ask him to take a look at whether the president much the united states has acted wisely in the use of force and whether or not the slip-shot comments being made by governor romney serve our interests very well, but there are things that have been said in campaigns that i find not very appealing. >> congressman ryan. >> first of all, i thank him for his service to our country. second of all, i would say we're not going to impose these devastating cuts on our military which compromises their mission and their safety. then i would say you have a president who ran for president four years ago promising hope and change, who has now turned his campaign into attack, blame,
and defame. you see, if you don't have a good record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone to run from. that was what president obama said in 2008. that's what he is doing right now. look at all the string of broken promises. if you like your health care plan, you can keep it. try telling that to the 20 million people who are projected to lose their health insurance if obama care goes through or the 7.4 million seniors who are going to lose it. remember when he said this? i guarantee if you make less than $250,000, your taxes won't go up. of the 21 tax increases in obama care, 12 of them hit the middle class. remember when he said health insurance premium wills go down on $2 5shgs00 per family per year. they've gone up 3,000, and they're expected to go up another $2,400. remember when he said i promise by the end of my first term, i'll cut the deficit in half in four years? we've had four budgets, $4 trillion deficits. a debted crisis is coming.
we can't keep spending and borrowing like this. we can't keep spending money we don't have. leaders run to problems to fix problems. president obama has not even put a credible plan on the table in any of his four years to deal with his debt crisis. i've passed two bunled to deal with this. mitt romney has put ideas on the table. weave got to tack this debt crisis before it tackles us. the president likes to say he has a plan. he gave a speech. we asked his budget office. can we see the plan some in they send it to the press secretary. he gave us a copy of the speech. we asked the congressional budget office. tell what is president obama's plan is to prevent a debt crisis. we say it's a speech. we can't estimate speeches. you see, that's what we get in this administration. speeches. we're not getting leadership. mitt romney is uniquely qualified to fix these problems. his lifetime of experience, his proven track record of bipartisanship, and what do we have from the president? he broke his big promise to bring people together to solve the country's biggest problems,
and what i would tell him is we don't have to settle for this. >> i -- >> we can do better than that. >> i hope i get equal time. >> you will get a few minutes here. a few seconds really. >> the two budgets the congressman introduced have ehave is rated all the things that the middle class cares about. it will knock 19 million people out of medicare and kick children off of early education. it will eliminate the tax credit people have to be able to send their children to college. it cuts education by $450 billion. it does virtually nothing except continue to increase the tax cuts for the very wealthy, and, you know, weave had enough of this. my idea is he is so concerned about these deficits, i pointed out he voted to put two wars on a credit card. >> we're going to the closing statements in a minute. >> just a second. >> you're going to -- >> not raising taxes is not cutting taxes.
by the way, our budget, we -- >> we have not -- >> it's increased by 3% a year instead of 4%. >> just a minute, and i want to briefly about we go to closing statements about your own personal character. if you're elected, what could you both give to this country as a man, as a human being, that no one else could? >> honesty. no one else could. there are plenty of fine people who could lead this country. but what you need are people who when they say they're going to do something, they go do it. what you need, when people see problems, they offer solutions to fix those problems. we're not getting that. look, we can grow this economy faster. that's what our five-point plan for the stronger middle class is all about, getting jobs, getting people out of poverty, into the middle class. that means going with proven pro growth policies we know work to get people back to work, putting ideas on the table, working with
democrats, that actually works sometimes, and -- >> can we get to that issue of what you could bring as a man, a human being, and i really am going to keep you to about 15 seconds here. >> he gets 40, i get 15? that's not fair. >> he didn't have 40. >> let me tell you, my record stands for itself. i never said anything i don't mean. everybody knows whatever i say i do. and my whole life has been devoted to leveling the playing field for middle class people, giving them an even break, treating main street and wall street the same, holding them to responsibility. look at my record, it is all about middle class. they're the people that grow this country. we think you grow the kun frico from the middle out, not the top down. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role
okay, we now turn to the candidates for their closing statements. thank you, gentlemen, and that coin toss again has vice president biden starting with the closing statement. >> let me say at the outset, that i want to thank you, martha, for doing this. and center college. the fact is that we're in a situation where we inherited a god awful circumstance. people are in real trouble. we acted to move to bring relief to the people in need the most help now. and in the process we, in case you haven't noticed, we have strong disagreements, but you probably detected my frustration
with their attitude about the american people. my friend says that 30% of the american people are takers, they -- romney points out 47% of the people won't take responsibility, talking about my mother and father, talking about the places i grew up, my neighbors in scranton, clay monte, he's talking about -- he's talking about the people that built this country. all they're looking for, martha, all they're looking for is an even shot, whenever you give them a shot, they have done it. they have done it. whenever you've leveled the playing field, they have been able to move and they want a little bit of peace of mind. and the president and i are not going to rest until that playing field is leveled, they in fact have a clear shot. and they have peace of mind. until they can turn to their kid and say with a degree of confidence, honey, it's going to be okay. it's going to be okay. that's what this is all about. >> congressman ryan? >> i want to thank you as well, martha, danville, kentucky, center college and thank you,
joe. it has been an honor to engage in this critical debate. we face a very big choice. what kind of country are we going to be? what kind of country are we going to give our kids? president obama, he had his chance, he made his choices. his economic agenda, more spending, more borrowing, higher taxes, a government takeover of health care. it's not working. it's failed to create the jobs we need. 23 million americans are struggling for work today. 15% of americans are in poverty. this is not what a real recovery looks like. you deserve better. mitt romney and i want to earn your support. we're offering real reforms for a real recovery for every american. mitt romney, his experience, his ideas, his solutions is uniquely qualified to get this job done. at a time when we have a jobs
crisis in america, wouldn't it be nice to have a job creator in the white house? the choice is clear. a stagnant economy na promotes more government dependency or a dynamic growing economy that promotes opportunity and jobs. mitt romney and i will not duck the tough issues. and we will not blame others for the next four years. we will take responsibility and we will not try to replace our founding principles. we will reapply our founding principles. the choice is clear. and the choice rests with you and we ask you for your vote. thank you. >> and thank you, both, again. thank you very much. this concludes the vice presidential debate. please tune in next tuesday for the second presidential debate at hofstra university in new york. i'm martha raddatz of abc news. i do hope all of you go to the polls. have a good evening. there are a lot of warning lights
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